Episode 64: Guest Chef Patrick Auger and Jules talk Gluten-Free Baking Tips and Tricks

Chef Patrick Auger - Professional Allergy Baker - joins Jules to talk about gluten-free baking tips and tricks like:

• Why do I need to weigh my gluten-free flour?
• Why is my gluten-free pancake so gummy in the middle?
• Why is the middle of my gluten-free bread still wet when I take it out of the oven?
• Can I make gluten-free bread without a bread machine?
• What's the difference between gluten-free AP flour and 1-to-1 flour?
• How do I substitute eggs in gluten-free recipes?
• Can I use flax egg in all gluten-free recipes?
• What are some trusted recipe sites for gluten-free baking?
• What about your gluten-free flour makes it so special?
• What's the difference between using salted and unsalted butter in recipes? 
• Can I use non-dairy milk in all gluten-free recipes?
• Why is it so important to read every part on that bag of gluten-free flour you buy?

If you have gluten-free baking issues (or dairy-free baking problems or egg-free baking dilemmas), you must listen to this episode!

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Transcript

Erica [00:00:13]:
Hey. I'm Erica.

Jules [00:00:14]:
And I'm Jules. Most people have at least one thing that they can't or won't eat.

Erica [00:00:19]:
Now we're definitely like that.

Jules [00:00:21]:
We started this podcast to talk about the gluten free food industry,

Erica [00:00:25]:
like new products and some of the stories behind your favorite brands.

Jules [00:00:29]:
And living life with especially diet and also some important health care topics.

Erica [00:00:33]:
Since we're basically both broken inside.

Jules [00:00:36]:
You had me at eat.

Erica [00:00:42]:
Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of you had me at eat coming live from Jules' kitchen in Baltimore.

Jules [00:00:51]:
In all its glory.

Patrick Auger [00:00:55]:
Jules, do you

Erica [00:00:55]:
wanna talk about why you guys are there and introduce our very special guest?

Jules [00:00:59]:
Yes. So I am here in my kitchen with chef Patrick Auger, who is my very special guest. We've been planning this trip. I know. We've been planning this trip for

Chef Patrick Auger [00:01:12]:
12 years.

Jules [00:01:13]:
2 years. That's right. He and I have been friends for years, baking comrades and,

Chef Patrick Auger [00:01:20]:
Conference, the gluten free cookie swap?

Jules [00:01:23]:
Yes. The gluten free cookie swap.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:01:25]:
That I did. The first one you did. That was the first one you did. So many years ago. So many years ago.

Jules [00:01:30]:
Yeah.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:01:31]:
I came in 2nd place and that's when Jill sent sent me all that stuff and I'm like, yeah, we gotta be friends, my friend.

Erica [00:01:37]:
Yeah. Yes.

Jules [00:01:38]:
Yes. So we've been baking, from afar

Patrick Auger [00:01:42]:
Mhmm.

Jules [00:01:43]:
And virtually together.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:01:44]:
Yep. Basically. Brainstorming. Brainstorming, changing things, helping everything. Yeah. Making things better.

Patrick Auger [00:01:51]:
Yeah. In the

Chef Patrick Auger [00:01:51]:
community, helping her when I can. Yeah, for sure.

Jules [00:01:55]:
And then, he was supposed to have come earlier this summer.

Patrick Auger [00:01:59]:
Mhmm.

Jules [00:02:00]:
And the week before he was supposed to come, I got COVID again.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:02:04]:
Yep. So

Erica [00:02:06]:
As Jules does.

Jules [00:02:08]:
As as I want to do.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:02:10]:
Yep. Pretty much. And then she wasn't baking, and I'm like, okay. I guess we're not gonna do it then. And I said, oh, you got a conference coming up. So I said, why don't I just come for 3 days and we can bake nonstop?

Jules [00:02:24]:
Pretty much. There's not gonna be a lot of sleeping going on. We're just gonna be, you know, baking and brainstorming.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:02:30]:
I will. Yeah. I will. Yeah. I'm figuring out what could what happened.

Jules [00:02:35]:
Right. Right. Right. So

Erica [00:02:37]:
I love it. Yeah. And tell us a little bit about the event that is going on this weekend for you guys.

Jules [00:02:42]:
So it's, the 2nd annual Baltimore Gluten Free Expo, which is outside, and I hope that the hurricane slash trouble storm, isn't going to affect it too much. Yeah. We shall see, but it's it's a lot of fun last year. It was a pretty small event, but you know, a lot of people in, you know, under tents, like, you know, we brought a tent and just had a table and a ton of samples and, got to meet a lot of, you know, new people and, obviously brought books and, product and, you know, for for sale. And it's in the parking lot of a place called BC Brewery, which is a brewery that makes regular beer as well as gluten free beer and sells some gluten free food as well. So it's kind of a nice little event space. This year, they're having live music and a couple speakers including Pam Puritan, my dear friend, the dietitian, from the University of Maryland as well as now. She also followed, doctor Fasano up to Boston and still works with him up there too.

Jules [00:03:47]:
So it should be a really great event, you know, weather, willing. And so we're gonna bake a bunch of samples for that too. And then Fine.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:03:56]:
And not sleep.

Jules [00:03:57]:
Not sleep. No. And then also give away a bunch of stuff to my neighbors.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:04:01]:
I'm pretty pretty much. I have a I

Patrick Auger [00:04:04]:
have a

Jules [00:04:04]:
test freezer over here that a bunch of stuff is gonna go into. So

Erica [00:04:08]:
Nice. Yeah. And, Patrick, do you wanna give yourself a little introduction and how you came into gluten free baking and all that you've done over the years?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:04:17]:
So I so that was 12 and a half years ago. 12 and a half years ago, I found a niche that gluten free was missing. This is actually before I even met Jules or Better Better. I am actually right now the formulator and product development for Better Better Gluten Free Flour. I formulate all their products, with my, business partner Naomi Pope, who we, developed a second company called Baker's Magic where we basically create formulas also for other peoples and other companies. So I'm basically the backbone of that company that basically makes the magic out of that company. So that means we take anyone's ideas. So if you came to us, Jules came to us, anyone in the industry came to us, and we make their product come to life.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:05:09]:
And that means myself, I thought I was doing this for a need of the community, but I recently found out that I was am highly allergic to wheat. So I can no longer have wheat products at all. Wheat makes me very sick. So and I cannot digest psyllium husk powder. So those 2 ingredients are a bad combination with me. So I came up with a newer product that is about to hit the market called bread flour. Basically, it works 1 to 1 substituting in a gluten free based recipe with 2 tweaks. You bake by weight and then you up the liquids by 50%.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:05:52]:
And you basically use your grandmother bread recipes, anything you want and have an amazing experience with this flour. It's out of proofs. It's cold proofs. It stretches like gluten and things like that. Naomi was a big part of it, but she out of the whole industry, is she was one of the big cheerleaders in my thing, through the industry as everyone knows people who are different and everything. But that's how I became, and then I basically after that years, I became a good friend with Jules after I won her cookie school swap, basically, 12 years ago. I just entered randomly. Jules didn't even know me.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:06:36]:
She kinda knew me. She knew what I was about. I was starting to use our flour, but it was like she didn't knew and she goes, oh my god. These cookies. They're amazing. Great job, Patrick. Great job.

Erica [00:06:48]:
That's how you get her attention.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:06:50]:
And then I basically we just started talking every I would try this. I would try this. I said, oh, Jules, have you made sourdough for a while? Jules was like, yeah. No. No. I don't wanna babysit this thing. No, Patrick. You're crazy.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:07:06]:
And then I said, no, Jules. You can do it. I sent her some of mine, and she's made her own starter. It became like a friendship kinda thing.

Patrick Auger [00:07:15]:
I know.

Jules [00:07:16]:
But

Chef Patrick Auger [00:07:16]:
Ever since then, we basically oh god. I text her and she texted me. I'm like, so what about this? And she goes, hey. I was just thinking about that. But in the weirdly thing, I'm like, I'm baking right now. She goes, yeah. Me too, by the way. I go, I'm not sleeping.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:07:34]:
She goes, yeah. Probably not. Me too. We're kind of those bakers that don't we just don't stop.

Erica [00:07:41]:
I this I know. This I know.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:07:44]:
So

Erica [00:07:45]:
think Patrick, what is your background? Did you start off baking?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:07:50]:
So I was a very so at a very young age, at the age of 5, I knew I wanted to bake. My first piece of equipment was a bread maker. Yes, Jules. But with gluten this? No. But with gluten. Yes. Okay. I've always been a gluten baker.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:08:11]:
All my life, I've been a gluten baker. Recently, I have had to stop baking gluten because I can't even so I can have the protein and wheat, but I can't have the wheat portion of the flour. So I can't even personally be near it. It will make me violently sick. So my I fell in love about baking. I was always I was the person that you had a party. Patrick's coming with this ginormic cake. It wouldn't be a cake.

Patrick Auger [00:08:43]:
It would be a cake that feeds 50 people because

Chef Patrick Auger [00:08:45]:
I'm that kind of person. Cookies for 50 people. I don't know how to scale projects down. I'm like, it's my my mother and father laugh at me because my orders at Costco and BJ's is 15 dozen eggs, 20 dozen of this butter and sugar because I'm a person that I'm a product development chef, so I'm always plating fiddling with this this and this. I went to cooking school in 2,000 and 9. 2,008, I I went to cooking school at Necktie Newton Culinary Institute and graduated with a degree and background in baking and pastry. So I went into the culinary industry baking, baking, glute with high end of gluten and everything Yeah. Falling in But bread has always been my passion.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:09:37]:
I have the art for bread. Mine is just not like, I'm not a cake decorator. I tell everyone that I can make fancy things, but I'm not a cake decorator. I like to make bread. I love to make sourdough bread. Sourdough is like gluten free sourdough, meaning, like, with gluten free flour. Yeah. Free sourdough.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:09:58]:
Not with gluten free. We started with a whole number project and everything that we're not No. That that's a whole another world.

Jules [00:10:08]:
But a gluten gluten sourdough that people think has become gluten free because of the sourdough magic. It's

Patrick Auger [00:10:13]:
not real.

Jules [00:10:13]:
Doesn't break down.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:10:14]:
No. Does not do that. Yeah. But, technically, it doesn't even follow in that whole thing. So it's a so I came to a passion for making products that people miss and love. Just like Jules, Naomi and I are just like that. We both have a true passion to making products that are true one to 1 flowers to one to one substitution of gloopsen. But the the real love and what I love to do is I love being in helping people product development new products for people that people

Erica [00:10:53]:
can Yeah.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:10:54]:
And I'm the person that also takes up try to take out the allergens that people miss too

Patrick Auger [00:10:59]:
Mhmm. That a

Chef Patrick Auger [00:10:59]:
lot of people don't understand in this community that, you know, yes. We love bread, but some people cannot have that loaf of piece of bread because they have dairy free, egg free, nut free, cream.

Jules [00:11:11]:
You know what, Patrick?

Erica [00:11:12]:
This is such a great introduction because one of the questions that I that we have, we solicited, questions from our outstanding listeners and viewers and and everyone on the interwebs, is okay. Great. So we've mastered gluten free. What next? What if I'm also egg free and dairy free? Can you talk a little, Jules, about substitutions coming at it from a scientific point of view? When do you use what substitutions? What is cool? What is not? You know? Like, can I use a flax egg for everything, or is there a simple thing where I can't?

Jules [00:11:52]:
It's such a great question because we get it all the time. I feel like I answer it almost every day. And I'm like, didn't everyone see my last answer to this question?

Patrick Auger [00:12:00]:
Or the

Chef Patrick Auger [00:12:00]:
post that you have?

Jules [00:12:01]:
Yeah. That's right. I have an I have a very comprehensive post on my website at gftools.com about this. If anyone has any questions about egg substitutes, please go check it out. Just go to gftools.com and search vegan egg or egg substitute there because it's a huge post all about egg substitutes and which work best for each recipe, each type of recipe. Because you can't just take flax egg and expect it to work.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:12:27]:
I'll tell you one thing. You can't take a flax egg and think you're making brownies. I will honestly tell you.

Jules [00:12:33]:
Brownies my example too. I was gonna say brownies.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:12:37]:
Brownies is a Yeah.

Jules [00:12:38]:
Brownies are tricky for egg free.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:12:40]:
But You can do it Yes. But you can't be then you can't be a top 9 free for everyone. Okay? Yes. You can do flax, but it's a whole different world to flax versus the proportion to the proportion of fla you just can't take the egg substitute and think it's gonna work. No. So what's what's easier?

Erica [00:13:01]:
Let's say bread. Say bread. Say brownies. What is the difference between the 2?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:13:06]:
So brownies, I would say a yeast based product. There's a couple of things that you can do. A 100% is if it's like a a lean dough, like a French baguette, ciabatta, things like that. Those mainly don't usually have an egg in it, so those are really easier to do. I'm more of a so eggs are in a recipe for binding quality, protein in the low, browning, texture, and things like that. The some breads you can get away with. You could basic sandwich loafs, sometimes you can get away with all water. But it depends on what and how much you add into the loaf at the same time because you can't just shove something in there and think it's gonna work.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:13:54]:
It's it's not a one one I wished it was. Speaking of bread, I hope that thing is rising out of the oven, but we'll see we'll see at another thing.

Patrick Auger [00:14:05]:
Yeah. I'm

Jules [00:14:05]:
just making sure the temperature

Erica [00:14:07]:
is not.

Patrick Auger [00:14:08]:
Not a fun. Let

Jules [00:14:08]:
me No. No. It's not 500. I was just like, wait. Did I turn the temperature down? Sorry. We're we're also baking at the same time.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:14:15]:
So a one for breads, like, let's say we're talking about cinnamon rolls. A cinnamon roll, you could get away with a flax egg. You could get away with aquafaba. Aquafaba is a can, juice of can juice of beans, basically. Any kind of white beans. Okay? The people in America some lady actually figured this out. I wish I was the winner to figure this out years ago. Jules and I was actually just talking about this, about other interest ideas that we might look into, that people don't understand.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:14:51]:
Apple fiber comes from a juice of a can. Any kind of juice of a can

Jules [00:14:56]:
Of beans.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:14:56]:
Of beans.

Erica [00:14:57]:
Right. So most people use chickpeas. Right? But you can use other beans too.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:15:02]:
Yes. So chickpeas, I will let you know this. Chickpeas, if you have peanut allergy, you should check with your allergist to see if you can have beef. That's just common. I tell people, but white beans, butter beans, things like that. Northern beans. Beans. Anything.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:15:18]:
Then you're gonna tell me what can you do with all those beans. Well, we can make chili and things like that. But some people don't understand hummus. You can actually take the beans and liquefy it from a whole can and put it in your yeast bread recipe and use that as an egg substitute. And everything else stays the same, and it will work.

Erica [00:15:41]:
That's weird.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:15:42]:
It won't taste it. You won't take

Erica [00:15:44]:
yeah. Okay.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:15:45]:
Trust me. You won't taste it.

Erica [00:15:47]:
I try I mean, I trust you. I just think it's weird.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:15:50]:
Everyone will tell you weird. So brownies. I will tell you this. The only clear substitute is yogurt. Is that vegan yogurt or regular yogurt? High fat, high protein yogurt. Substitute for the yo the eggs. Just eggs is a product on the market that is I don't like it. I like it for certain things, but you can taste the bean flavor in some things you bake.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:16:14]:
I wouldn't sit there and have a scrambled egg

Patrick Auger [00:16:16]:
with it.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:16:17]:
There's no way. Not gonna happen. But for a brownie, you can hide the product into it. Nothing chocolate will mask the flavor. That will work. The only thing about just eggs is is it's manufactured in a facility that also has eggs. So a lot of vegans and allergists won't recommend it. So and the next thing would be baby food puree prunes.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:16:43]:
Yes, Erica. Prunes.

Jules [00:16:47]:
Love that.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:16:48]:
Interesting. I told you. You're gonna

Erica [00:16:51]:
But I get, like, apple so apple sauce is used, right, as a lot of subs, but is prunes better than apple sauce?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:16:58]:
Yeah. Because the prunes master chocolate flavor. The prunes have the more fiber and the proteins where the eggs are missing, and you have to blend all this up in your mixer so it basically bakes out the same way. You can also take equal parts of a can of black beans mixed with the juice, a little bit of the water a little bit of water, and then top that whole thing in the brownie base dry ingredients and whip it up.

Jules [00:17:27]:
So the applesauce works. The problem is, like, if we if we say use applesauce, you could go to the grocery store and buy a jar of applesauce, and he could go to the grocery store and buy a jar of applesauce and it'd be totally different. One could be much more watery than the other. One could be much thicker. And what you're looking for is the fiber and the starch to really, like, hold together as the egg substitute. And you don't want a watery applesauce in there. It's not gonna work. And the and it won't have enough of the fiber and the binding that you get.

Jules [00:17:57]:
You know, so if you wanna use applesauce, you could, but you really need to kinda strain it out and make it not watery and thin. And then it just gets a little more complicated.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:18:05]:
Now if you're talking cookies and things like that, those are very easy to do. Cookies and things that really don't have a lot of eggs in it, like one eggs, things like that. Like cookies drop cookies. Jules likes energy egg replacer for cookies. Aquafaba works a 100% in all cookie recipes. You could get away with apple sauce because of the protein structure in apple sauce. Cookies are very forgiving and things like that. I've actually used water in place in a cookie recipe when I'm in a pinch and they still work.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:18:40]:
Things like that are more forgiving. Now if we're talking cake

Patrick Auger [00:18:46]:
Mhmm.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:18:47]:
It's a whole different world.

Patrick Auger [00:18:48]:
Yeah.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:18:49]:
When you're substituting 5 or more ingredients in a cake, you gotta look somewhere more. Like angel food cake and sponge cake? Yeah.

Erica [00:18:56]:
How do you

Jules [00:18:57]:
do that? Aquafaba.

Erica [00:18:59]:
Can you do it?

Jules [00:18:59]:
We can do. Aquafaba? I've been able to do is whip the aquafaba.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:19:04]:
You have to whip the aquafaba and then take this aquafaba and stabilize the aquafaba to make it bake in the oven. So aquafaba will not stable at a whole stable in the oven. It has to be suspended with something else, with aquafaba. So that's another binding agent. So it could be like Green tartar. Tartar, xanthem gum, gore gum, something that really binds it. Not psyllium husk or anything like that. But I will tell you this.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:19:33]:
There's other eggs that do so flax eggs is very popular in America to use this. But a trick with flax eggs is if you don't want the seeds in your product, you can boil the properties of the flax eggs to make a gel. So you basically take equal parts water to flax, boil it, and boil it and boil it. It will boil it for, like, 45 minutes and become like a nice gel. You take it golden flax. Don't use black flax because black flax will make everything the gloopiness very black. Golden flax will give you the color of egg whites. Okay? You can cool that down 50 grams per egg.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:20:17]:
Works in quick breads, banana breads, everything like that. And you can whip it to a meringue stage to make, like, French macaroons, like that very fluffy marshmallow and everything like that. Even Italian.

Erica [00:20:33]:
Whipped flax eggs?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:20:35]:
Hell, yeah. It's called flax gel.

Erica [00:20:39]:
That sounds exciting.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:20:41]:
Eric is like, oh, man.

Erica [00:20:44]:
Okay. Themselves.

Jules [00:20:44]:
Next question. We've been I think we've beaten the meringue out of this.

Erica [00:20:48]:
Okay. So what about so what's easier to replace, dairy or eggs?

Patrick Auger [00:20:53]:
Dairy.

Erica [00:20:54]:
Okay. So but but all is all dairy as appropriate?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:20:59]:
Before I'm, like, burning up the house.

Erica [00:21:02]:
So let's I'll start with Jules. Jules, is all dairy substitutes appropriate for all items?

Jules [00:21:11]:
Where did the are there they're they're over there. Are all dairy substitutes appropriate for all items? Well, that's a very broad question.

Erica [00:21:18]:
It is, isn't it? Yeah. So if I'm substituting for cookies or for bread, does it make a difference? Macadamia, nut milk,

Jules [00:21:26]:
peanut milk. Milk. So, I mean, like,

Patrick Auger [00:21:28]:
when I'm

Jules [00:21:29]:
dairy substitutes, I'm thinking about butter. I'm thinking sour cream.

Erica [00:21:32]:
Just let's talk about milks first.

Jules [00:21:34]:
Okay. No. I mean, I was it the right temperature? Okay. Do you wanna put it here? No. Sorry. We have more bread.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:21:45]:
Not bad.

Jules [00:21:45]:
Oh. Just didn't get any more oven spring out.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:21:48]:
No. We're gonna figure out. I'm gonna figure that out.

Patrick Auger [00:21:50]:
Okay. We

Jules [00:21:52]:
have lots of experimenting to to do. So here's the breads we're working with here. So the the thing with milk is you have to look at the fat content of the milk before you decide whether it's going to be really super successful in baking. Because a lot of the the, breads and things like that, if you're gonna use, you know, if water would have been an acceptable substitute, then it doesn't really matter if you're using any milk substitute is fine. But if you really needed a higher fat content of, you know, the milk that you were using, then you can't just use any old milk substitute. You need one with a higher fat content. And a lot of the dairy free substitutes don't have a high fat content or even a high protein content. So you have to look at that and see what is it used for in the recipe.

Jules [00:22:52]:
And is it do you need the fat? Do you need the protein in the recipe for any particular reason? And then, you go with your substitute from there. And if you can use coconut milk, then a can of coconut milk is a really inexpensive way to do a dairy free substitute that has high fat, and is a great baking substitute, that just kind of across the board. It's really easy.

Erica [00:23:15]:
How would you use that can of coconut? Say I have a can of coconut. I pop open the top. What do I do with it now?

Jules [00:23:21]:
Well, again, it kinda depends on the recipe. Do you want actual milk, or do you just want the fat from the milk, like the cream off the top? If you just want the cream for something, then you do not shake the can, you take you skim the cream off of the top of it and use that. If you want the milk, then you have to really vigorously shake it because you have to reconstitute the fat with the water. And, you know, and it depends on the recipe. Like, in my recipes, all my recipes are dairy free anyway. So if I call for the fat or the cream from a can of coconut milk, then I'm gonna tell you in the recipe, like, don't shake the can. You're gonna open the can, and you're gonna skim this much off and you're gonna use that in your recipe. It's great for things like, you know, curries or things like that where you need to have just a certain amount of fat to cut the heat or you if you need that cream.

Jules [00:24:08]:
Or for ice cream. You know, things

Chef Patrick Auger [00:24:10]:
You can take the fat off and whip it and make whipped cream out of it.

Jules [00:24:14]:
Mhmm. Yep.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:24:15]:
So you got your dairy free whipped cream. You can make scones from it like

Erica [00:24:19]:
a coconut.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:24:21]:
You can use it basically, what you would use coconut you can use it as a cream substitute a 100%. It makes amazing chocolate and ash frosting Mhmm. Anywhere. Like, I use I used to use coconut a lot. I use a coconut a lot at home for base, and I'll buy coconut cans because I don't really wanna buy the whole thing of coconut milk and the Yeah. Like, so delicious coconut milk that's, like, $10 a gallon. I'm just saying it. And you gotta be careful.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:24:50]:
So if you are I will tell you this. A lot of people don't know the stabilizers in these milks. So if you are, say, Sam, gum free, corn free, things like that, you better be you gotta check the back of those stabilizers because that could be another sometimes, if the recipe is not written right and you just start subbing random things in, it could change the outcome of the texture of the product because it could have too much of that stuff in. Like, if you were using it, a coconut milk for, like, a low fat buttermilk, I actually you so to make vegan buttermilk is pretty easy.

Patrick Auger [00:25:31]:
Mhmm.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:25:32]:
You take equal parts milk and a tablespoon of, like, vinegar or lemon juice, something sour to sit there. You probably can use white wine. I would not use, like, balsamic or anything.

Erica [00:25:43]:
God.

Jules [00:25:45]:
I just Erica, just grew up a little bit here.

Erica [00:25:48]:
I love using apple cider vinegar because I love that tang that comes with the natural buttermilk.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:25:53]:
It does. Yeah. And you can also make your own plant based milk at home by blending up the, like, cashews, almonds. Purity protocol oats? Purity protocol oats.

Patrick Auger [00:26:05]:
Yeah. ZEGO oats. Yeah. Hey, now. Yeah. No. I love my nutter.

Erica [00:26:10]:
We have a nutter. I have a Yeah.

Jules [00:26:12]:
I love that nutter. And for recipes, especially when I'm doing shows and I need to make something that has an allergen free, milk, that's what I'll do is I'll

Chef Patrick Auger [00:26:22]:
Hemp seed milk? In there. Mhmm. Is amazing. Hemp seed milk.

Erica [00:26:26]:
Fatty. I like that.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:26:28]:
It makes amazing so hemp seed milk makes a really good like, if you're making, like, sweet dough for cinnamon rolls, oh my god. You would know the difference. And coconut milk works like things like that. So now if we're not talking milk substitute and we're talking butter, that's a whole different section. I'm gonna tell you this, and Jules was probably right with me, is when you would talk about vegan butter, there is a couple different substitutes out there, but they're not always one to 1. Like, the tubs of vegan butter, the spreads they call them. Don't ever use them in baking. No.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:27:06]:
You will cry.

Erica [00:27:06]:
I found that out. Yeah.

Jules [00:27:07]:
They're they're called spreads because they're designed to spread. And so if you use them in your recipe, your recipe's going to spread.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:27:15]:
Unless so you could get away with using it in a cake. It probably would perform the right way because a cake is gonna it would probably give you a nice good texture, but I wouldn't like, pie crust, no way. Pastry, no way. Cookies, you're gonna be crying.

Erica [00:27:34]:
So no tubs, but what about the sticks? Those are hydrogenated or whatever to like

Chef Patrick Auger [00:27:41]:
So if you can use let's put it this way. If you can use nuts, my favorite all around butter is probably Miyoko. It's Me too. It's plant based, certified vegan, everything healthy for you. I will tell you the difference is an unsalted and unsalted version. So if you get the salt all vegan butters mostly now except for a couple. Like country cock had just came out with unsalted. All the other ones had salt in it.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:28:12]:
So all I would do is tell people to just cut back their salt from recipes a little bit because a lot of our vegan butters are heavy in salt. I would use so Miyoko's is a 100% one to one substitute for butter. Amazing for pastry and things like that. Country crock is really good in the sticks that work. Art Balance is really good. So if anyone's gonna be like, I'm, so melt is another one that people like. I don't like it. It has a weird taste in my tongue.

Jules [00:28:44]:
And it it does not work for frosting.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:28:47]:
No. I'll tell you that.

Patrick Auger [00:28:48]:
It's awful

Chef Patrick Auger [00:28:49]:
for frosting.

Patrick Auger [00:28:50]:
And,

Chef Patrick Auger [00:28:51]:
my god. BioLife. BioLife is really good. They're clean ingredients, very nice tasting, and it has a color of butter. Really nice. So That's

Jules [00:29:02]:
pretty much it, I think.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:29:04]:
Yeah. But if we're gonna talk shortening now, I will tell you this.

Jules [00:29:09]:
We went round and round about shortening a couple

Chef Patrick Auger [00:29:11]:
weeks ago. So there is products of shortening that's pom so Crisco you can use Crisco. Crisco's changed their label years ago to take all the the non hydrated

Erica [00:29:22]:
Yeah.

Jules [00:29:23]:
Hydrogenated stuff in it.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:29:25]:
So it's not that bad.

Erica [00:29:26]:
What is it now? What is it made with? Is it ambidex

Jules [00:29:30]:
fat? Oils.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:29:31]:
Vegetable oil.

Erica [00:29:32]:
Oh, okay.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:29:33]:
So it's not it's still be it's plant based. So it's a it's safe for people like vegans and things like that. But palm shortening is probably the best. There is a cup. You have to be careful from brand to brands of palm shortening. Not all palm shortening is an equal ratio. Jules and I figured that out a couple weeks ago when she thought she was having a natural disaster one day.

Jules [00:29:56]:
Had a nervous breakdown over my pie crust because my shortening apparently was the problem.

Erica [00:30:01]:
I only use Spectrum. I've never seen anything else. Yes.

Jules [00:30:06]:
So I used a different brand, that it looked like it was exactly the same.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:30:11]:
And a funny story. Your boss is saying.

Jules [00:30:14]:
I know. It's not the same. And it looked like it was the same, like, on the package.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:30:18]:
Agree.

Jules [00:30:18]:
And it worked great for cookies, but it did not work for my, pie crust.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:30:24]:
It's the moisture in the shortening that makes it a better solid fat to bake with. So shortening spectrum is the cleanest one out there probably right as of right now. And I think tropical digit tradition has one that's a it's a plant based. But you have to buy like a 5 gallon butter.

Patrick Auger [00:30:45]:
Yeah. No.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:30:46]:
No. I'm not I'm not testing that out. No. Then you can send it for me for free, but we're not gonna have it. Yeah. So vegan so I think butter is a better so those are, like, the top butters and things like that. Coconut oil will work in a pinch for certain things.

Jules [00:31:03]:
I do find that that coconut oil, if you're stuffing coconut oil in for a recipe that calls for butter, because the moisture ratio is different. And also the same thing goes for shortening. If someone if a recipe calls for butter and you're using shortening instead, you have to understand that butter, whether you're talking about vegan butter or regular butter, the moisture content is 80%. And if you're talking about shortening, it's basically 0. It's somewhere close to that. It depends on the brand, but it's close to that. And so if you're subbing that in, you're you've just changed the moisture ratio of your recipe. So you're going to have differences in your recipe if you're gonna do that.

Jules [00:31:40]:
That does not mean you can't make that substitute. You just

Chef Patrick Auger [00:31:44]:
might need to add to add a little bit more extra liquid. Like, for a pie crust, you might need to add a little bit more water or Gotcha.

Patrick Auger [00:31:52]:
More water. Yeah. For me.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:31:54]:
I don't drink for everybody. Think about that. I don't drink.

Jules [00:31:57]:
But he uses all vodka in his bike crust.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:32:00]:
I use It

Erica [00:32:01]:
bakes out. It's fine.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:32:02]:
It does. So I go to the liquor store and buy a case of vodka and everyone. Oh, and I make my own vanilla and all.

Jules [00:32:08]:
Added for added.

Erica [00:32:09]:
I'm sure

Chef Patrick Auger [00:32:10]:
vanilla. Mhmm. Yeah. I love it. So I'm a and but I don't drink. So this is I bake with all the alcohol, and everyone goes, what? But yeah. So a scientific for vodka. Vodka leads it bakes out a 100%.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:32:26]:
People go, well, I don't drink. Okay. That's fine. But vodka Cool. Good for you. Good for you. But we can how scientific is in pastry baking, it's a key ingredient for flakes, height, lift, and all things flaky pastries. And it has to be ice cold for this properly to work.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:32:50]:
So when it hits the oven, your pastry is usually cold. Things like that. It makes this amazing flakes in your pastry, and it works actually for biscuits. Yeah. I use vodka when I have to. I love it. I use it in puff pastry.

Patrick Auger [00:33:10]:
I

Erica [00:33:10]:
use it using it in puff pastry? Are you just adding a little in just like a splash and

Chef Patrick Auger [00:33:18]:
No. So puff pastry depends on the recipe and how it's made. Puff pastry is usually made with a little bit of water. So I don't use the water. I use all the vodka. Uh-huh. Yep. That's really interesting.

Jules [00:33:32]:
Out of vodka. You can also just use bourbon

Chef Patrick Auger [00:33:37]:
or some gin or whatever you're talking about.

Jules [00:33:40]:
Yeah. And and I actually really like, for all of my pumpkin pies, I end up because I put Yeah. Bourbon in my the bourbon

Erica [00:33:46]:
pie. Yeah.

Jules [00:33:47]:
Put the bourbon in the crust too. Mhmm.

Erica [00:33:50]:
Okay. I love this. Is this this that could have been an entire episode by itself, but we have to move on to the next question. The biggest question that we get is about texture stuff, and I am such like a nut about texture in breads and muffins and cook in not cookies, but, like, quick breads. Like, what is up with in gluten free baking? So many things are dense and gooey in the middle, from pancakes to breads. What about gluten free baking makes it so apt to just be gooey and dense and weird in the middle and just not like a regular gluten containing muffin or pancake or whatever. What's going on, and how do we fix that?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:34:43]:
Jules, she's gonna start because I can

Patrick Auger [00:34:46]:
Yeah.

Jules [00:34:46]:
Well, there are several things that are going on. One of the things is I think a lot of people are still not measuring properly. And so

Chef Patrick Auger [00:34:55]:
It's driving me nuts, Seth.

Patrick Auger [00:34:57]:
Yeah, I

Jules [00:34:57]:
know. So, we talk about this all the time. There's also an article on my website about how to measure your flour properly. We advocate a a 100% for weighing your flour if at all possible because buying a food scale is not an expensive, endeavor, but it can make all the difference in your baking. And it also makes baking faster. And then Mhmm. Remove a variable of like, maybe you measure differently than I measure. And some people scoop and some people push scoop ins and you level round.

Jules [00:35:26]:
So just if you can measure your flour by way instead, you've just absolutely removed one of the variables of like, I put too much flour in or I didn't put enough flour in. Another thing is with different recipes, you have to mix longer or shorter. If you are over mixing in most gluten free recipes, that will cause a lot of the gumminess and the texture. Fundamentally, if your flours are not the right flours for that recipe, then it's a nonstarter. So if you let's say you're looking at a recipe and it calls for certain flours and you use different flours, you can't expect that that's gonna work, unfortunately. And I think a lot of people come at gluten free baking from the same perspective that we did when we first started, which was flour is flour is flour. And if you, you know, because it used to be, like, when we used to make with gluten, you just go to the grocery store and pull whatever flours off the shelf. It's all the same.

Jules [00:36:27]:
Like, it doesn't matter if it's Kroger brand or if it's, you know, Giant brand or if it's Gold Medal brand.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:36:33]:
It doesn't matter if it's the protein.

Erica [00:36:35]:
All the same.

Jules [00:36:36]:
Right? It's not the same for gluten free. And so if you are scouring Pinterest and you find a recipe that you really, really like and you wanna try it, you know, and you decide you're gonna use a different flour for that recipe, you really might come up with a different result.

Patrick Auger [00:36:52]:
Mhmm.

Jules [00:36:52]:
Another issue is that a lot of people are, you know, relying on flowers that are kind of cheaply made flowers, and those are never gonna give you a great result no matter what. If the flowers themselves don't have

Patrick Auger [00:37:08]:
the right binding properties or if they're gritty or if

Jules [00:37:08]:
they don't have the right or if they're gritty or if they don't have the right moisture retention properties. So And if you rest, I will tell you this.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:37:15]:
So xanthem and most flowers out there in America right now is xanthem gum, gorgum, selenium has there's some kind of binders. Okay? And one to one ratios of flowers. Modified tapioca starch. Things like that. Okay? Once you hit and everyone will say different things about this. This is not to hit anyone. But I'm telling you, once you add the baking powder, baking soda, that is not me.

Jules [00:37:47]:
It's not you?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:37:49]:
Oh. That

Jules [00:37:49]:
was by the way the bread

Erica [00:37:51]:
Fire alarm.

Jules [00:37:52]:
Way less time than This

Chef Patrick Auger [00:37:54]:
It was, like, 3rd. Sorry. But this is like I don't know.

Jules [00:37:59]:
I think there's a big air pocket in there.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:38:01]:
Oh, this makes it the best loaf of bread. We'll work on that.

Jules [00:38:05]:
Okay. Alright. We'll get back to that. Sorry. We're we're doing massive experiments

Patrick Auger [00:38:09]:
with people.

Jules [00:38:09]:
Like, we are, like, reducing, reducing, reducing. Getting the fewest number of ingredients, that's our big experiments. Like, how few ingredients can we put into one loaf of bread and still come up with a a success? Anyway, that's that's where we like

Patrick Auger [00:38:21]:
Sign it.

Erica [00:38:21]:
Like, tweak it. Flour, vodka, and yeast. Is that where we're coming

Jules [00:38:24]:
from? Vodka. We haven't tried that. Erica, you're brilliant. Okay. Tonight, we're throwing in the vodka. No.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:38:31]:
We're gonna put those in the croissants.

Jules [00:38:33]:
Oh, that's right. We're making croissants later too. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Give me some

Erica [00:38:37]:
time. Of your time together.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:38:39]:
We'll do it then. You

Jules [00:38:40]:
can still fly out.

Erica [00:38:41]:
I am in Salt Lake City. Remember? I can't. Sorry.

Jules [00:38:45]:
Change your ticket.

Erica [00:38:46]:
Okay.

Jules [00:38:46]:
There's an expo here too. You know?

Erica [00:38:48]:
Yeah. Sorry.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:38:50]:
Cooked up Raul in that.

Jules [00:38:51]:
Then what? She can have it Zeego to attend to talk more. Okay. Sorry to derail.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:38:58]:
So just binders, xanthan gum, all that stuff. Okay? When you call it at a 1 to 1 ratio, why the texture changes from other flowers? Okay? If you don't bake by weight, you also don't and this is a big thing is in the community is some people don't recommend what manufacturers come up with as a baking percentage. Okay? Formulators in this United States like Jules, Better Batter, and other companies, they put a weight on the back of their package for a reason. Because they spend, I will tell you this, more money in r and d products of testing recipes from grandma down the road, from allrecipes.com, from Martha Stewart Living, from all these websites, from bakeries, from this at this certain weight and make sure that this flour works at this certain weight. So that's very big that if you start using oh, this recipe calls for a 140 grams a cup. This recipe calls for a 130 grams a cup. This calls for a 120. There's a there's a balance.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:40:13]:
AP Flour ranges in the United States from every website to 5a half to 5a quarter. The 2 best sites in America, all America's Tutchinson and King Arthur have totally the different route. 120 is AP from here. 135 is Joules. Better Batter is 120. Talking grams. Grams per cup. Okay? We're talking cups.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:40:39]:
Okay? If you don't follow that and sometimes people will say split the difference at 1:30. Yes. It will work most of the recipes. Okay? But if the recipe is designed to work as a 1 to 1 gluten free flours 1 to 1 gluten free flours, meaning this is gonna get tricky because people full quote one to one gluten free flour in America and think you can make yeast breads and then turn your package around, say you can't make yeast breads.

Erica [00:41:09]:
Jules hates the concept of all purpose versus 1 to 1 flower. She's a

Chef Patrick Auger [00:41:14]:
lot of hassle.

Erica [00:41:14]:
About it.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:41:16]:
So a 1 to 1 so an all purpose usually means there's no buying during it. I'll tell you that. But sometimes in America, an all purpose flower, k, will say there's some brands from an all purpose like King Arthur has an all purpose I'm not telling you it's a bad thing that says right on it, have to add xanthan gum to products. Okay? But they call it an AP. Okay? But you have to add xanthan gum, borgum, whatever to your recipes. That's not a 1 to 1 flour. And a 1 to 1 flour, meaning, I can take grandma's recipe. Basically, I could take Jules' recipe for her sandwich bread recipe.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:42:00]:
I'm just gonna put it there and make it with her gepjes flour and still come out the same way. I can make my bread recipes that I've made all the time in the world, and I might need to tweak the hydration. Either you substitute it in by a 135 or 140 because, technically, with bread, bread flour is a 140 grams a cup and staple around America. That's what bread flour is. It's a high protein flour. A little bit more flour gives you better body and texture in a loaf of bread. What a one to one flour meaning is so for breads, you might need to tweak the hydration a little bit. Those are the little things.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:42:41]:
But once you have to add ingredients like konjac, psyllium husk, modified tapioca starch into another blend protein, the isylopod protein. You're just mess you're changing the whole formula right there. It's no longer your 1 to 1 flour anymore. Because once you change their product from the producer, no longer 1 to 1 flour. You cannot say that's a 1 to 1 flour because you're adding konjac, psyllium husk, extra starch, extra this. It's no longer and, yes, some customers like that, but that's not what we're about. We're about 1 to 1. Grandma can make cookies.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:43:21]:
Grandmas can make pies. Grandmas can make cakes and cupcakes and things like that and not have to go down the street and buy all these extra ingredients. And I get it, but this is why company started these brands. And, yes, you can go buy those cheaper flours, add these ingredients, and get loaf. But, again

Jules [00:43:42]:
I don't think it was perfect loaf.

Erica [00:43:43]:
It's not a perfect loaf.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:43:45]:
Not a perfect loaf, but I'm trying to explain it

Jules [00:43:48]:
in a different way. I know what you're saying, but, yes, you can do it.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:43:52]:
But it doesn't come out have to.

Erica [00:43:54]:
You shouldn't have to. Have to,

Jules [00:43:56]:
like, add all this stuff. No.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:43:57]:
And that

Jules [00:43:57]:
and that makes it not a one to one. So back to the earlier question Sorry. Do you have anything else to add about the gummyness or

Chef Patrick Auger [00:44:03]:
the gummyness? Comes in the texture through all that. Is and also, we don't know what recipes you're using. If you're using tried to Yeah. From Jules or better mister crappy recipe.

Patrick Auger [00:44:17]:
Or it's

Chef Patrick Auger [00:44:17]:
got Perlina's recipes that make the pancakes and waffles and things like that, or you're not cooking them long enough. So you take so couple things more. Do you have an almond thermometer in your oven?

Erica [00:44:28]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.

Patrick Auger [00:44:29]:
Do you

Erica [00:44:30]:
have a thermometer? To your like, what are the things that people need?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:44:33]:
Have a thermometer in your thermometer to test your baby's bread temperature and make sure it's nice and fully cooked to 210 degrees. Do you are you baking on convection or regular bake? There are 2 different valuables right now. Are you baking in gas or electric? Stings This

Erica [00:44:51]:
is why I'm such a

Jules [00:44:52]:
bad baker. Glass or a metal pan. Like and and we're not trying to, like, make it sound like baking is so difficult.

Erica [00:44:59]:
It's a science. It's really is. It's a science.

Jules [00:45:02]:
There's

Chef Patrick Auger [00:45:03]:
Okay. So bread pans should be aluminum. Okay? Glass is a nemesis of baking gluten free bread. It does not properly hold the structure, the temperature of baking properly. This also goes for quick bread. Quick bread, you can get away with glass, ceramic, things like that. But, this holds the heat, conducts the heat, allows your bread to give you oven spring, things like that. Okay? And a lot of people I will touch on this is that there's different pans for everything.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:45:38]:
A Pullman loaf pan, everything like that. There's different types of passion, different textures you're gonna get. For pancakes and waffles, are you do you have a high heat temperature? Are you on electric stove? First of all, are you following if it's a package from one of us, are you following their directions and adding the right ingredients, or are you just adding random stuff and properly letting things cool. Mhmm.

Jules [00:46:05]:
Yeah. If you break into a pancake or a loaf of bread right after you bake it, it's going to be gummy because you have to let the starches set up and the cell structure to settle, like, before you, like, break into it. And it's it's hard to do that because it smells so good and you wanna break into it. But you really have to just let it sit for a little bit before you start cutting into the gluten free pancake or the gluten free bread, and, otherwise, it will be kinda gummy.

Patrick Auger [00:46:34]:
Mhmm.

Erica [00:46:36]:
So what about a thermometer? So, like, an we have a oven temperature, therm an oven temperature thing to make sure your oven's at the right temperature. Right?

Patrick Auger [00:46:44]:
Mhmm.

Jules [00:46:45]:
K.

Erica [00:46:45]:
So and then, Patrick, you mentioned the thermometer thermometer. Second. Right? Okay. So I have one of those. Awesome. What about cakes? What about cookies? Did they all have a temperature that you should take some by sight?

Jules [00:46:58]:
Yeah. Cakes are, like, 190.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:47:01]:
Or or spring back when you touch them. They should have a toothpick test. You can put a little tick with it. Do they come out

Jules [00:47:08]:
clean. Or dry crumbs. Dry crumbs. Just not wet.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:47:12]:
Just not wet and nothing gummy gummy gummy. In gluten free for cakes, cupcakes, and muffins, You wanna get those right up. You wanna bake them 5 minutes tops in the pan and get them right out or the structure will start to fall and you get gummy bottoms. So you don't

Erica [00:47:34]:
take them out of the pan and put them on a cooling rack?

Chef Patrick Auger [00:47:36]:
Yeah. So they don't steam because you don't want things steaming. Okay. This doesn't count. We're testing.

Erica [00:47:45]:
It's testing.

Jules [00:47:46]:
Everything comes out of the pan except for this one right here.

Erica [00:47:48]:
Okay. Good. Yeah. That one's the the sole one that doesn't come out of hand. Yeah. That is so interesting because I don't think that people know that because I know angels I make so many mistakes. Like, I just I see you in the, the guardian angel on my shoulder that's like, don't do that. And I'm like, I'm gonna do it anyway.

Erica [00:48:05]:
That's how I feel when I'm baking.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:48:07]:
So cookies are easy to tell when you you there's a difference. So cookies are soft, cakey, doughy. Like, cookies are, like, your friends. So you can underbake a cookie because that's what America likes right now.

Erica [00:48:20]:
Love loves an underbaked cookie.

Jules [00:48:23]:
I just don't like hard cookies. I and by the way, parchment is also, like, is your friend. Please bake your cookies on parchment for so many reasons, not the least of which is

Chef Patrick Auger [00:48:35]:
I don't like silicone for cookies.

Jules [00:48:37]:
No. No. But I mean, it absorbs, like, the oil on the bottom. It it makes them a little bit crispier on the bottom. It means your cleanup is less. And then you don't have to worry if you're like baking at a friend's house, the parchment will keep your cookies away from anybody else's maybe pan that has had gluten on it before. Mhmm. You know, there's lots of reasons

Erica [00:48:57]:
for The biggest takeaway that I'm getting is to actually read the instructions and follow them. And, like, and not just follow them with the ingredients, but follow them if it's like, line your pan with this. You use a dark metal for a dark metal pan, bake this on for a light metal pan. You know, like, actually look and read the back of the bar. Like, all of it. Yeah.

Jules [00:49:19]:
Right.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:49:20]:
Mhmm. Boxes, bags,

Patrick Auger [00:49:22]:
flour, recipes, and make sure the recipes if

Chef Patrick Auger [00:49:22]:
it's not a grandma's family recipe, good make sure that you're actually using a product that makes sense for you. Don't just use a product and say, oh, well. Yeah. This is gonna work.

Jules [00:49:50]:
Well and then I hear a lot of people say, you know, I I just wish that there could be a cinnamon roll recipe or I wish I wish that, you know, somebody could Make a pie crust. Pie crust, whatever. And and we're like

Erica [00:50:04]:
We have

Jules [00:50:04]:
that. I have 6 cinnamon roll recipe.

Erica [00:50:07]:
The ingredient.

Jules [00:50:07]:
Like, I have videos showing you how to do that or, like, I That are better

Chef Patrick Auger [00:50:11]:
as the cinnamon roll clone Yeah. Of cinnamon bun.

Jules [00:50:14]:
Yeah. The the

Chef Patrick Auger [00:50:16]:
pie crust is a I can send you 7

Jules [00:50:19]:
But every time we see something like that, we're like, I bet you either haven't looked at our sites or you've tried our recipes with someone else's flower.

Patrick Auger [00:50:30]:
Yeah.

Jules [00:50:30]:
And and it literally makes a humongous difference. And and, you know, it makes us so sad when people waste their time and waste their energy and get their hopes up. Mhmm. And then they really think that the cinnamon rolls aren't possible or high pressing isn't possible or whatever.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:50:52]:
Or bread.

Jules [00:50:52]:
Or bread. Yeah. And and it's all because they haven't as you said, Erica, they haven't followed the instructions or they haven't followed the exact ingredients that are given.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:51:02]:
Or they could say that, yeah, I don't wanna buy it because it's so expensive. Yeah. Okay. Expense is dirty. Well, following instructions. But I will say this is buying flour from well sourced people that do do all their testing, high quality ingredients, I can stand by telling you guys is we there's no grittiness. There's no rice flour. There's no grittiness in any of our flours.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:51:29]:
There's no texture difference. Everything should smell like a real AP flour if you're buying it from us. Right. There might be a difference from a malty grain because it has a different flavor, but it shouldn't have that musky bean flavor or anything that you would I'm sorry. And I do

Erica [00:51:49]:
you know, that musky bean flavor. That's exactly what

Chef Patrick Auger [00:51:51]:
I'm asking about. We don't wanna charge you expensive Yeah. No. For this. But you you have to understand is we go through all the testing, certifications, everything that to make this product for you. So you get the product and have good results.

Erica [00:52:18]:
Okay. You guys, we're wrapping it up for the last thing. I want you to say, Patrick, what's your favorite, thing that you've made? So is it a recipe? Is it a product that you've made with either Better Batter or on your own? What's your favorite thing? What are you most proud of? What is, like, the one thing where it's like, I wanna get to know Patrick better. I'm gonna make his cinnamon roll recipe or buy this

Chef Patrick Auger [00:52:44]:
So one of my new baby that we just launched with Better Batter is a 12 and a half year project for me and my business partner, Naomi, because I wanted people to bring back the memories of traditional gluten free bread baking with no extra ingredients, know that they can knead it. They can coldproof it. They could stretch it. They could have fun with it. If they want, they could throw it up in the air. Okay? But it's not gonna stretch all the way like gluten and things. There's still no gluten, but it's it's called the better, better bread flour.

Erica [00:53:16]:
So tell me, Jules, what is your favorite? What is your thing that you want people to be? I know what I think Mhmm. Mine is from you, but something that you bake that is, like, this is me in a on a plate.

Jules [00:53:30]:
Oh, it's so sour though. No. Wow. That's that's so tough because I'm one of those people who the thing that I'm baking right now is always, like, my favorite thing. Yeah. But I think that just nostalgically, I have some recipes that just means so much to me because I was able to recreate them and they were like my grandmother's cinnamon sticky buns, for example. My mom's holiday rum cake, you know,

Patrick Auger [00:54:06]:
all the

Erica [00:54:06]:
That's what that's what I was gonna say if you didn't say it. I'm like, that is what I think of you.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:54:10]:
I have never had that.

Jules [00:54:12]:
Ugh. I mean So good. And they were, like, a couple a couple recipes that were super hard for me to actually recreate because the recipes didn't really exist. Like, my grandmother's was, you know, one of those handwritten recipes that had, like, the batch

Patrick Auger [00:54:29]:
of this and

Jules [00:54:30]:
the the, you know, whatever. So it wasn't it wasn't like I could just throw my all purpose flour in, it was gonna work. Mhmm. And it was really important to my whole family that we have that recipe again. And then my mom's, you know, holiday rum cake, it was based upon a cake mix, you know, and then some other stuff, like a pudding and a this and a that. And it was just super random, you know, like very

Chef Patrick Auger [00:54:53]:
processed food. Pistachio cake like that.

Jules [00:54:55]:
And and sometimes I make it with a pistachio pudding.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:54:59]:
And you swirl chocolate in the middle? Well, I

Jules [00:55:01]:
don't do the chocolate, but that's an interesting idea.

Patrick Auger [00:55:03]:
But but,

Jules [00:55:04]:
you know, it was really important to me to bring those back. And especially now that my mom is gone, like, I just those are just things that I hold on to and then super, super, super proud, that I was able to to resurrect those recipes. But, you know, I'm I'm in love with, you know, my all of my flowers and the fact that I was able to, you know, create those by myself and, like, bring those to market is probably the proudest. Yeah. Her babies. My babies, exactly, as you would say. And then, yeah, I don't know. I think, you know,

Chef Patrick Auger [00:55:40]:
pie crust Your pie crust.

Patrick Auger [00:55:41]:
Pie

Jules [00:55:42]:
crust because my it was my my other grandmother's pie crust that I I used to cry over gluten free pie crust. I mean, I I loved eyes and I could not get a pie crust to work. And I I finally did like what we're doing right here. I just started taking everything out of pie crust recipes. And I and I was like, I I'm actually back to my grandmother's pie crust, which is basically flour and salt. And then, you know, and then I got the ratios right with the shortening and the butter and then the vodka, whatever. And then it's I love making gluten free podcast now. And it stretches, and I can do lattice, and I can hit and it's light and flaky.

Jules [00:56:19]:
And I make anything I want you with it. And it's, you know, I remember being in the kitchen with my grandma.

Chef Patrick Auger [00:56:24]:
Now I want that.

Patrick Auger [00:56:25]:
We can do one later. No.

Erica [00:56:26]:
I want that. Yeah.

Jules [00:56:28]:
I know. And then you make

Patrick Auger [00:56:29]:
it all

Chef Patrick Auger [00:56:30]:
the time. Now she's like making it like, oh

Patrick Auger [00:56:32]:
my god. I know.

Jules [00:56:33]:
And then and all the little pie crust edges and you just take butter and cinnamon sugar and roll them up and make little pie crust snails with them. And yeah. So just anything that evokes, you know, those nostalgic moments for me, I just I love having those recipes.

Erica [00:56:47]:
Okay. Well, thank you so much, both of you, because this is very strange that it's an art our typical setup. Thank you all for stopping in. Jules, thank you for hosting Patrick, on this amazing I'm

Jules [00:57:01]:
honored to do it. I'm so glad we finally I know.

Erica [00:57:03]:
Fun episode. You guys, thanks so much for tuning in to You Had Me Eat. Thank you to our special guests. Thanks again to Jules, and, thanks for listening. We hope to see you on another episode of You Had Me at Eat soon.

Jules [00:57:18]:
Thanks for tuning in to You Had Me at Eat, the number one voted gluten free podcast in the country. Remember to like and subscribe, tell all your friends, and we'll talk to you next time.